Recession-Proof Cash: When to Say NO to Lagos Gaming Centers

Today on the podcast, we are going to be looking at profits versus purpose and the question of whether your business should stay away from certain kinds of customers, certain kinds of industries. Yeah, that's the larger question I was supposed to be looking at today. Are we supposed to make money any which way possible or is it that we should make money, but then there are some kinds of customers, some kinds of industries, some kinds of situations that we should stay away from.

Now, the reason why we're looking at this today is because yesterday we were faced, I was faced with precisely this sort of issue. So I have a client currently and they are in the content production space. What they do is they make content for other companies their their social media. Now, the whole value proposition for my clients is that they try and make content for you, but they do it at less than the cost of hiring a full time employee or a full time social media manager.

So in other words, if you have a business and you're paying, you know, 350K, you know, for a social media manager and for a content producer, then my client, what they promise to do is look, we're going to provide all this content for you and it's going to be less than the cost of these two people's salary combined. So why not go ahead and do business with us? So that's what my clients, that's what they do. So to do that now what we've been working on for them is we have been using traditional prospecting.

Prospecting is, you know, you go out into the field and you start talking to people one-on-one or you pick up the phone, you start calling people one-on-one, you try and set up meetings, you know, things like that. So that's canvassing, that's traditional prospecting and the target that we had for now for these my clients were that we're going to target Co working spaces in Lagos because my clients are based in Lagos.

And this was the reason why we're looking at Co working spaces because Co working spaces typically have communities typically have mailing lists, you know, e-mail mailing lists, you know, things like that, WhatsApp communities. And so the angle that we're coming from is if we can do a good job for the Co working spaces, hopefully they would allow us access to their own database so that we can now e-mail or reach out to other people who work in those Co working spaces and see if we can get business from them.

So in other words, you know, we're trying to kill two birds with one stone. We're trying to make a happy customer. And then from getting the happy customer, if we do a good enough job, you know, they let us have access to the database, whether they give us permission to start calling people one-on-one or whether they will say, compose a broadcast message, we'll now broadcast it on your behalf, you know, but we haven't gotten there yet.

So we're still at the level of trying to secure the Co working spaces and trying to make sure that they are happy. So that was the plan. So far, we've called about 20 companies and we've set a couple of meetings and everything seems to be going on OK. But after a while, I told the team that look, you know what, we're going to run out of the Co working spaces that we're calling. We're going to run out of this cohort pretty soon.

So it's now time for us to explore a new segment. So you guys just, you know, run along, come up with some ideas, come back, let's discuss and let's see who we are going to target next to try and sell these services. So they said no problem. So they went away like 2 days and then the team lead came back and said, hey, I got it. I thought of something. I said, what did you think of? He said now one day while they were in the field, now when they were shooting, they were just tired.

So he needed to chew. So he went to one of these relaxation centers in Lagos. You know, like how in Abuja we have everywhere you go, there is a all, I put it gardens. I think that's what they're called here, gardens. You know, there's a garden, you know, catfish, stout, suya, you know, all these kind of things. So he went to one of those places and he noticed that there was a gaming centre and some gambling centers and things like that.

He thought about it that it's true. Then from having some conversation with these people, it looked as if they are looking for those kinds of services. You know, they need content for their social media and looks as if they're going to be willing to pay. So the team leaders like, you know, how far should we try these people? Remember, we're talking relaxation centers. You go and drink beer, you take catfish, you eat 3, then you play sport bets.

Then from there you go and play, you know, FIFA 94 or Mortal Kombat or whatever. So what about those places? And I thought, well, interesting. Quite frankly, when we're talking about producing content, I wasn't thinking about people like this. But you know, when it comes to sales now, some of these things is trial and error because you never know. So I said no problem, let's let's explore it. And the guy said sure, no Ala.

Then the guy called me back. You say there's a problem. I said what's the problem? He said he spoke to the old guy in the office. Because remember, even though I'm talking with the team lead, the person that is sorry, one moment, OK, a call was coming in, but it's not that important. So I'll get back to you later. Yeah. I make these podcast recordings from my phone. Oh, by the way, apologies for the noise in the background.

I'm making today's recording at home. Today's a Tuesday. The house is being cleaned, wifey is still on leave, so you know there's going to be noise up and down and then plus if any notifications coming on my phone, most likely you're going to hear the buzz. So where was I? So even though I'm lasting with the team lead, the person is actually paying my fee. My professional fee is the Olga. So let's say, let's say, let's say your guy's name, Mr. Kano.

So actually Mr. Kano dies paying my fee. So team lead, he said there's a problem. I said what's the problem? So I spoke to Mr. Kanu. I said what did Mr. Kanu say? And this is what Mr. Kanu said Mr. Kanu say, what did you say? Betting company, games, alcohol, fish. No. Mr. Kanu said no. And I said why did Mr. Kanu say no? And this is what Mr. Kano said. Mr. Kano said that these businesses are not productive, that Mister Kano lashed them.

He said how can he be looking at this kind of business? What did they produce? What do they do? Go and be sitting and be drinking alcohol, be eating fish, be talking. Anyhow, I do gossip. Then go and bet. Bet what? Gambling. What is gambling? And I'll be playing FIFA. You'll now be turning grown men playing computer game. Are these the kind of people we should be doing business with? The same is I can't rake, rake, rake, rake, rake or I can't told them that look, leave all these kind of businesses.

These are non productive businesses. Go and look for manufacturers. Go and look for educational establishments. Those are the people we should be creating content for. So that's what team lead told me. I said well, team lead, well, you know, now the companies are your own company. Mr. Kano, the owner of the company has said that these people that are doing alcohol and fish and betting and video game that we should not do business with them.

So if a guy has spoken or guy has spoken, so therefore we move come up with a new list, excuse me, come up with a new list and let's see how we can tackle that. So they've gone to go and look at it and that's the reason why I'm making today's podcast episode to explore the kind of tensions, to explore the ethical issues that are involved in business. Because if you remember, I think it was yesterday's podcast episode where I spoke about Abdul and that's the show trucks and how when we were discussing financing for his trucks because his equipment is very expensive,

you know, 20M50M100M. So it's a good idea to explore financing for some products because it's not as if everybody has like 100 M just lying around in the house to go and drop cash like that. But then when we're discussing financing and it involves interest, Abdul was quick to point out that you know, now where Niger, you know, northerners, me, I'm a northerner. Some of our brothers, when they hear interest, they want to do it again.

So there are ethical issues that are involved in business. And so we're going to explore some of those today. Oh, by the way, if this is your first time listening to the podcast that you like solving business problems, how do you attract customers? Maybe once in a while you have been exploring some of the heavy philosophical issues like this, then this podcast is your jam. So stay locked in. Subscribe on Spotify, YouTube,

Apple, or any player of your choice. And if you'd love to connect, then call, send me a text message or WhatsApp me on 08064662140. My name is Tavishima Aide. I'm the host of the podcast. So that's what we're talking about now. So the line of tension is this for Oga Kanu. By the way, Kanu is not his real name. So this is the the line of tension for Oga Kanu. Is it purely about making money? Because remember Team lead,

while he was there drinking small stout and eating catfish, he decided to have some conversations with the people just to see whether there's room. Like this is the company I work for, this is what we do. Would you guys be interested in learning some more? Would you guys be interested in booking a couple of sessions? Would you guys like to pay? So team lead now in talking to people, it looked as if there's room. So it looked as if there's money here that we can tap.

Because remember sales sometimes trial and error. If you do trial and error here and these people drop money, then it means, OK, we can look at other catfish places, other betting companies, other Nintendo, Sega, you know, all these gaming centers and they might be willing to pay as well. You know, sometimes that's how you you discover new markets. So is it purely about making money or should we be staying away from vice industries?

Vice, that is VICE, you know, like vice president, but different meaning so. But traditionally that's what they're called, vice industries. So that is the tension. There's money to be made in some kind of industries, but is it a good thing to enter them or not? That's the tension. Now for those of you who haven't heard the term before, the vice industry just means any industry, any business, any setup, any naira and Cobo, any dollar and cents, any euro.

You know, money is moving situation that might be morally questionable or might be harmful to public health. So I repeat, there are some situations where yes, you can make good naira and cobalt, you can make good dollars, good EUR, but then morally this comma or it might be harmful to public health. Some people call them exploitative industries, some people call them sin industries, although when I was a boy, they used to call them vice industries.

All these industries that cater to human desires, human weaknesses, vice industries. So that is what they are, morally questionable, powerful to public health, exploiting people. In some religions, they'll classify some of these things as sin. So there's good money to be made there, but should be doing it. So some examples we already know, like alcohol, you know, of course, Mr. Kano is concerned. Why are we helping drunkards promote their business, tobacco?

Those of you who are Muslims, you already know about that one. Funny enough, because I know some Muslim brothers who won't smoke tobacco as in those small, rough, rough months, but then they'll go down. Then they'll now be smoking shisha. And I'm wondering that what's the business? I mean like what's, what's the connection? I don't think the main thing is the tobacco. The main thing is whether how I put it, you are engaged in a wholesome activity or not.

So that's just my own opinion on this thing. No, my Muslim brothers, you know, if you're not supposed to be smoking cigar, I really don't see how you can be smoking in shisha. It's not about the thing you're putting in the joint, it's about the whole process of jointing up in the 1st place, you know. So whether a Christian or a Muslim, if you know, suppose the, you know, if you're not supposed to lace a joint, then don't, don't, don't lace any joint.

So don't say the prohibition is against tobacco, but this one is just small rose water and small Mary J. Therefore let me light it up. No, no, no. If your religion says no lighting, don't light anything. Don't light cigar, don't light Mary J, don't light rosewood, don't light anything. So I have some of those industries, Alcohol, tobacco, gambling, adult entertainment, if you catch my drift. Then psychedelics, you know,

Igbo, marijuana, What else? Weapons. Some people include weapons, you know, like people who are gun runners. Well, yeah, they are gun runners in Nigeria. I think it was last year, last year that I met my first gun runner. As in people who trade in ammunitions and weapons. You know, I thought was only in films that you see this sorts of thing. So, yeah, I meant 1. Funny enough, he's female. That's the thing that will shock me the most.

I just assumed that, you know, when I finally meet a gun runner, somebody who sells weapons, I assumed to be a guy. Where is a female? I say women do this business. You say, hey, no, there's money to be made. I say, OK, no. O Diego, where was I? So those are the vice industries. Now The thing is actually there's a business case for vice industries or cine industries because these industries are recession proof. Let me repeat, there's a reason why people should enter these businesses.

Even though the business has question mark, the business has comma, the business is questionable. It is because these businesses are recession proof. Think about it, having lived in the UK, in Scotland and here in Nigeria, I have discovered that it doesn't matter how bad the economy is, boys will always drink. There will ever be a need for shiau. It's something I don't understand. You know, the economy is hard, people are struggling.

But somehow back when I was in the Scotland, in the UK, you know, because that was when they were doing belt tightening and then recession in the UK and then or what not, no matter how hard the economy was. Excuse me boys, do they drink drink drink anyhow, as in alcohols do they flow? And the same thing in Niger. No matter how bad the economy is, alcohol will still flow. So alcohol is recession proof. Same thing with cigar boys.

Whoeverly smoke no matter the tax you put on it. Boys go. They smoke in the UK. He's beginning to look as if the more you tax cigar, the more cigar sales continue to go up. Adult entertainment, doesn't matter how bad the economy is, boys will continue to watch film, if you understand what I'm saying. Whether the film is free or whether the one you pay for, the business will always be there. Then entertainment, adult entertainment establishments in Lagos and Abuja, you know strip joints matter how hard the economy is, You see guys,

they're still declining, still popping bottles, still spraying money. So that's the reason why people get involved in these industries because they're recession proof. The economy is good, people will still spend. The economy is bad, people still spend. Like gambling, the economy is good, people will gamble. The economy is bad, people will gamble. The economy is average, People will gamble. They have money, they will gamble.

They don't have money. They will gamble any which way they will gamble. So that's the reason why people enter into vice industries because it is recession proof and in which way those businesses will still be there. They've been there since the beginning, they're here now and they will continue till the end of the age. So how do we deal with this problem from a business perspective? This is a problem of ethics. It's a problem of morals, so we can't resolve it without putting on our thinking cap or putting on our philosophical cap.

This is not the kind of problem that using science you resolve. It's a philosophical problem. Now, luckily for me, I'm Catholic. And so in the Catholic tradition, particularly in the in Thomistic philosophy, that is philosophy that is derived from Thomas Aquinas, he was a priest and a theologian in the 1200s. You know, he has this framework around material cooperation with evil. And it is, how I put it, it was designed precisely to answer these sorts of questions that yes, we do also, we're trying to do business, we're trying to make money.

But sometimes when we're making money is as if the whole zoo that we're trying to do will now have one kind immoral effect. When should we continue in the whole zoo and when should we stop? So those are the big questions. Now, material cooperation with evil, where should we continue? When should we stop? Now, Thomas Aquinas, in his framework, he came up with different tools. Well, let me just talk about two and one now is this thing of formal cooperation with evil and then material cooperation with evil.

By the way, people who study these things in that tradition, they said that look, we all cooperate with evil in one way or another, whether we like it or not. For the first time, somebody told me, I said, what do you mean? I do not cooperate with evil at all, at all, at all, at all. And then the guy said, OK, think about it. Let's say you patronize one business in your neighborhood. You have a neighborhood shop, you patronize the business, you go and buy your a soft drink.

What else? Eggs, bread, you know, things like that. When you buy, money goes into the man's pocket or the woman's pocket. Who owns it? But let's say the woman now or the man uses that money to now start funding illegal enterprise. The illegal enterprise is only possible because you. I've gone to go and spend money there and the person is using the money to go and do batting. So in a way, you're cooperating with evil. So when they explained it that way, I was like, oh, OK, I see.

So The thing is, whether we like it or not, all of us cooperate with evil. But then the question is, do we deliberately or do we intend to cooperate with that evil or not? And that is where these two segments come in, formal cooperation and material cooperation. Now, formal cooperation is just when you directly and deliberately know about the evil act and you are sponsoring that evil act. And that is what Mr. Kanu de Olga was trying to avoid.

Sorry about the noise in the background. You know, with the chickens, You know, when we're coming to this estate, they said no pets allowed. And my wife was happy because my wife doesn't like animals. But then we moved in and we realized that, Omar, they have everything here. Cow they have chicken they have Peacocks they have Rottweilers, they have cats they have what else? It's even more that somebody that somebody even has snake in this estate.

So anyway, you know that's Nigeria now. Nobody keeps to the rules. You're coming in, they say no pets, everybody sign will not bring in pets when now people are bringing in the whole zoo basically. So where was I? So formal cooperation, that is when you intend the evil act. So in this case, now Mr. Khan was saying that if we are in the business of creating content, we're helping companies advertise themselves. This company, what they do is they sell alcohol.

This company, what they do is they do spot betting. This other company, what they do is you can come here and play Mortal Kombat. So if we create content for these people and if we take their money, we are deliberately helping the gambling company to create more gamblers. We are helping the alcohol and catfish place to create more drunkards. We are helping the FIFA, the PlayStation, the Xbox, you know, the gaming center to create more lazy young men.

So that's how Mr. Kanu is looking at it, that if you do it, you are formally cooperating with evil. You are helping peddlers of alcohol to create drunkards. So that's what Mr. Kanu is trying to run away from anyway. In the Catholic for Mystic tradition, formal cooperation is always wrong. If this thing is wrong and you're helping these people do more of it, you're helping them do bathing. So don't do it. So that's where Mr. Kanu is coming from, even though Mr.

Kanu didn't say it like this. But you know, instinctively, if your father hears that you're doing some kind of business and then your father shouts at you that, you know, you know, my son, how can be involved in this kind of business, blah, blah, blah. You know, these are the kind of things that Popsy is talking about, even though he's not saying it in a very elegant way. Your father is saying that no son of mine should formally cooperate in evil, that yes, we must hammer, but my son is not that bad, is not by doing this kind of business.

Remove your hand. I raised you well. Then there's also material cooperation. Material cooperation is when you assist, but you did not share in the intention. So let's say, let's say this, let's say you are a Courier company, a dispatch company at hand and then you own, you're the driver, you only just to show up and drive. So you show one day and you see that your truck is loaded with alcohol. You drive and let's say you're a Muslim, Muslims, because Muslims you're supposed to touch alcohol.

You only just drive the truck to the location. So for you it's just a job. I normally drive things. I came today what was in the truck was alcohol. And my old guy said drive this alcohol to this depot or drive this alcohol to this catfish joint and then drop it there for them. So the man says, look me, I'm just doing my job. My job is to drive. They are put something I have driven it to where it's supposed to be. So that is material cooperation.

You helped in the act, but your intention was you are not trying to spread alcohol. Now the first time I got introduced to all this, sorry, I know some of you'll be saying we didn't come for philosophy today, but don't worry, I'll wrap it up real quick. See, my first introduction to all this was when I think it was my year 4, maybe Year 5. We had a professor in business law in OAU who was talking about investing and he was saying how if you're a Christian, you should not invest in Disney.

There's someone who started arguing back and forth like, ah, we should invest in Disney. How? And then he pointed out that Disney, you know, as a business owns. This is what my professor said. Do I have not verified? So I'm saying it. This is what my professor said. Me, I've not verified. My professor said that Disney as a portfolio company owns other smaller companies and as part of the portfolio they have adult content, adult entertainment content in their portfolio.

So he was saying that if you're a Christian, you cannot deep hand and buy from this basket of companies because when you support Disney, you're supporting all these other businesses. So that was the first time I got my first time. I was introduced to all these sorts of ideas. But anyway, I'm just saying that when it comes to the world of business, you can see that we're juggling a lot of issues, whether it's Abdul that we're talking to two days ago and he said finance, it's a good idea about interest.

Our Muslim brothers now they won't take, they won't take that one. And then whether it's Mr. Kanu who says, yes, we need money, but will not collect money from betting company, will not collect money from alcohol and catfish. I will not collect money from gaming centers because they promote laziness. So yes, there are lots of issues that are involved and I've given you some tools, at least in a Catholic tradition about how we deal this thing, deal with these sorts of things and how we look at whether you are materially or formally cooperating with evil or not.

So how was it resolved? Like I said, my own take to them, you know, I'm just a consultant from outside. My own take was, look, Olga has spoken. If Olga Khan will say we will not collect money from betting company and then we can't collect money from betting company, on to the next one. I think it's not a bad idea. When you're in charge of your own company, then you can evaluate the ethical issues, you know on your own.

But once your guy has spoken or guy has spoken, so that is my own advice to you. For those of you who are employees, once a guy has spoken, he has spoken. So whether you think alcohol not too bad, betting not too bad, gaming not too bad, once your guy has said no, he has said no, Just let it go. I had to make my own decisions early. I think last year, there was a bottom power entrepreneur, if I can put it like that in quotes,

if you understand what I'm saying, a female bottom power entrepreneur, send me a message on LinkedIn. You know, I was polite. And yeah, we sidestepped the conversation because even Shima, she knew. So she asked me straight up, look, this is what I do. Do you consult for businesses like this? So she was very professional and upfront about it. So we sidestepped the issue. Then my very first inquiry actually was somebody who was in the in the in the vitamin space.

Let me put it like this. You know, I'm trying to speak coded. So the guys who sell vitamins, but vitamins that help male performance, if you understand what I'm saying. So that one, I also had to weave it. So for me, those are the only ethical issues that I have sidestepped so far. Now, bottom power business or hospitality business in quotes, how some people like to call it, they'll say no, no, no, it's hospitality that they take care of you, they make you feel nice when you have tension, they help you release tension.

OK, so those are the only issues that I have, I have sidestepped. But at some point, most of us will have to make that determination. The only thing I'm here to help you with today is just to say if you want to determine these issues, you need a wider ethical framework. So go and talk to your pastor, go and talk to your imam, or go and talk to your philosophy professor or whatever it is that you've been in touch with.

But sure, you have to talk to someone. You can't just say what I think, what I think. Because if you're going with what I think, what I think, at the end of the day, you're just going based on opinions and opinions are not always correct. We're trying to do the right thing. We're not trying to do what we like. So summary, the goal is we should all be billionaires. That's the goal. We should all make this sweet money. We should gain the world as the good book says, but we shouldn't gain the world at the cost of our soul.

So this is not a proper up sales episode today. And I apologize for those of you who came here looking for hardcore sales. Don't worry, tomorrow we'll go back to hardcore sales and marketing. But I just wanted to share these ethical dynamas they're going to building a profitable business and to get you guys thinking. Because as business owners and our salespeople, eventually we'll get to the point where somebody asks us to buy something or to sell something and we'll get that tingling at the back of our brain.

Like, should I be shook in hand in this sort of thing? The best time to decide on these sorts of things is now. So think about it for your business. What are the things that are going to be off limits? Determine that today. Don't wait until, don't wait until the situation arises because you might not be strong enough to resist temptation. And I'm telling you guys, this one from real life practice because there was one time I

hadn't decided for myself. Then my first born was still young. I had not decided, you know, in theory I had decided, but I hadn't really decided for myself. There was not until I was holding the envelope and I realized that it's not naira that is in this envelope, it's dollars is when I was holding the envelope. I now started considering that hey should I keep it or should I not keep it. Luckily for me that day my leg was weak, my hand was weak, but luckily my wife was strong.

And so my wife said we'll return the envelope. And as she took the envelope inside me, I just kept telling myself, Tarish, you might keep quiet. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. Because I knew that if I open my mouth, I'll collect the envelope back. But I just kept quiet. And that's how the envelope was was returned. So don't wait until you're looking at those dollars before you decide you might not be too strong.

So decide today so that when that time comes, you tell yourself, no, no, I'm ready for about it. Me, my wife, me, my brother, me, my parents, me, my pastor, me, my mom. We already thought about it. This kind of business. No, we'll leave this one. We'll get the dollars another way, another way, another day. So that's it, that's it. And that's all for today. Thank you very much for listening. Remember, if you'd love to connect, remember, I'm not a philosopher.

I solve business problems. So don't get in touch with me for philosophy. Get in touch with me because you have business problems, especially business problems that are related to sales or marketing. So you can call, send a text message or WhatsApp message to 08064662140. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I will catch you all some other time.