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Today on the podcast, we're going to look at how long you should be spending in sales and marketing mode if you are a startup founder or if you're an early business person. So in other words, let's say you're brand new to the game, you're about to start a business or you have an idea for a fintech, some startup, some whatever. How long should you be in the sales grind? How long should you be in the marketing grind? Now, if you like these kinds of topics, these kinds of issues,
be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple iTunes, where else, you know, YouTube or wherever you like to listen to this kind of business content. My name is Tavishima Ayede, I'm the host of the podcast and I am a former lawyer turned business consultant. So be sure to subscribe and catch us over here every other day where we talk about all these juicy kind of material. Oh, besides, I'm not like other podcasters.
I love to hear from the people who listen to the podcast. So if you'd like to be in touch, you have questions, you have comments, you have queries or you want us to collaborate on one or two things, then call, send me a text message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140. And don't worry, I'm the one who's going to answer the phone or respond to your messages, at least until I become a big boy. So when I'm a big boy, I'll now give it to my PA, you know, to be doing that.
But for now you've got me. So back to the question, how long should you be spending in sales and marketing mode when you are startup founder or an early business person? Now this is the context for the conversation that we're having. There was a start up conference in Lagos earlier on in 2025 where a famous Nigerian tech founder who has achieved an exit, you know, exit just means all. I put it like you started your company, the thing grew big and then you guys either did an IPO
that's invested on listed on the Stock Exchange or you sold it off to somebody else and you collected good money, plenty, plenty money. So that's an exit. So this is someone who has built a company, who has achieved an exit. So it is not somebody who is talking theory. This is somebody who is doing, who has done the practice. Now this person at the startup conference was talking to newbies, new people in the game and trying to tell them what to expect when it comes to gaining traction for your startup.
Now I'll be making a series of commentaries on the guys videos because there's a bunch of stuff that he got correct. For the things that he got right, I want to emphasize it again for those of you who are in the startup space, there are a couple of things that he could have wanted better. And in that case, I want to lend nuance to what he said and give the proper perspective. And then there's some things that are flat out wrong,
Although to be fair to the guy, he hasn't said too many things that are wrong. And in that case, I want to tell you what the right perspective is from the level of sales and business development. Now, the reason why I'm doing this is because unfortunately, there are lots of people who build successful businesses in spite of the fact that they made errors when it comes to sales, marketing, business development. And they go around, you know,
touting their own way of success as the way, the truth and the life. And we would not want those of us who are know who are more knowledgeable about these things wouldn't want you guys to fall into those errors. Now, let me give one example, one that Gary Vee likes to talk about a lot. Although this is not sales and marketing related. Gary Vee talks about how what's his name? The iPhone guy iPhone, What's his name? What's his name?
What's his name? Jobs? Steve Jobs. So Steve Jobs comes on the scene and because of his toxic, you know, acidic management style, but he's successful. Everybody assumes that that is what you're supposed to do if you're an auger, shout at people, berate them. What else? Unrealistic deadlines, you know, that kind of thing. So Jobs succeeded in spite of his management style. But then lots of people assume it is a good management style because if he works for Steve Jobs and if he works for Elon Musk, then people think that that's a valid way to run a business, run people to the ground, abuse them, abuse them,
Mama, insult them. You know everything just because you're trying to move towards a certain goal anyway. So let's get back to the topic at hand. How long should you be spending in sales and marketing mode if you're a startup founder? Now the fellow that was looking at the startup conference, he said something and I want to quote him so that we are responding to his actual words. Now this is what the guy said. Of course, I'm not saying who the guy is or who the event was.
You know to anyway, I'm not saying who they are. So the guy said and I'm quoting him. Now the reality of being a great founder or being a great salesperson is that you are always selling and at no point in time do you go on break from selling. Let me repeat what the guy said. The guy stood on stage and told his tech people, his start up people, his people who are about to enter into the business. He told all the boys and the girls gathered there who want to be like him and this is what he told them.
He said the reality of being a great founder or a great salesperson is that you are always selling and at no point in time do you go and break from selling. So now this is a question. Is he correct? And the answer is, unfortunately for those of you who don't like selling, the answer is yes. But however, it's yes but not forever. So that is your temporary respite. So if you don't like selling what this guy said, is it true?
The answer is yes, you have to be selling all the time and you will never go on break. But The thing is that is not going to last forever. Now let's look at why it is, yes. Now some people have pointed out, like Brian Tracy, you know, I won't go that far, but this is the way Brian Tracy explains it. Brian Tracy says that there's some dynamics that apply in physics that also apply in business. And he likes to Brian Tracy likes to use airplanes and rocket ships.
So when an airplane is about to get off the ground and when a rocket ship is about to get off the ground, that is the period that they spend the most amount of energy, where they burn the most amount of fuel just so that you can break free from gravity and begin the coast so that you can fly, so you can move. So Barrett Racy says it's the same in business. And there are lots of people who say it's the same in business.
So whether you like the metaphor or not, unfortunately that's just the case. To get the business going, there's a lot that you need to get this thing off the ground to get traction. But The thing is, after you get traction, you can now ease back on a couple of things. So you don't always have to be doing 140 kilometers per hour, but once you achieve a certain level of traction, you begin the coast. Everything is flowing smoothly.
You can relax and instead of turboing at 140 kilometers per hour, you can remove your food from the pedal and just be cruising at 90 or maybe at 100. So those are just the dynamics that are required in business. In the beginning, there's a lot of stuff that you have to do to get things off the ground. But now how do you know when you're at that level of coasting, when you're at that level of achieving critical mass, when you're at that level,
when you can lean back? Unfortunately, it's it's hard to say. For instance, I have a friend who is a lawyer just like I was. I was my senior in secondary school and also in university, but we've been close since then because you know, from secondary school to university to, you know, Shark, we've always been around each other apart from when I went to the UK for a while and you know, tried my luck there before coming back.
So he's a lawyer, but he also has a restaurant and currently where they are is he's getting profits of about 250,000 naira weekly. I repeat, the profits are 250,000 naira weekly and he's been doing that for I think close to 8 months steady, like the thing has not dipped. So monthly profits about 1,000,000. That is profitable. That's by the time you remove money for everything, salaries, food, this and this and that and that and it's been going on for the last 8-9 months.
However, this has been driven by advertising. They have been advertising on average 40K every single month, but that is what has sustained this level of growth because it's a franchise franchise in Lagos. Well, sort of like a franchise because they have three outlets in Lagos. And my guy was like, this thing works now, so can we come and replicate this thing in Abuja? And the other people he partnered with said, yeah, sure we can.
And so they took the exact same concept and then they're running the play over here. So they're brand new in this space. In fact, when my wife came back from her trip recently because she travelled to Lagos for work and I told her that Oh my God, I started a restaurant that's like a restaurant that what are they called? I mentioned the name. She said I've never heard of them before. I said, yeah, they're brand new. It hasn't reached like one year yet.
And the flagship locations actually in Lagos, three of them. But I said here's the Instagram handle I showed her and it was like, oh, OK, this thing seems legit. I think the over 10,000 followers. Let's see what else Inisha forget the number of followers. The most important thing is, and he showed me the inbox. You know, orders seem to be coming in steady like every 2020 minutes bringing, bringing, bringing messages coming in.
People want order SO250K in weekly profits, but they're currently advertising 40,000 naira monthly. Some of you say 40,000 naira to advertise on Instagram. Unfortunately, in this case, that is the level of hustle, that's the level of grind, that's level of graft that is required for now to get things off the ground. Because remember, it's been less than a year. So at some point when they say that they have critical mass,
they can relax and reduce advertising spend. But one thing that they've noticed now is if they drop advertising from 40K to, let's say, 30K, they see the difference immediately, immediately. So they now know that they're not at that stage. So it's really hard to say. How do you know when you've achieved critical mass? This is why it's important when you have a business, excuse me, you have a business to keep monitoring and keep measuring all these things.
So for now, for this my guy and his partners, their leg is still on the throttle. They won't release it. Yeah, I know it's throttle, but you know, Nigeria now say throttle. So now their leg is firmly on the throttle and they will continue to do 40K every month in advertising. And by the way, for those of you who say it is expensive, you're looking at things the wrong way. They're spending 40K every single month in advertising and the thing generates so much money that they're able to pay staff, able to pay everything,
able to settle a mark and all these other people who like to harass businesses and you know, everything. And remember this, my friend is in partnership with other people and there's still 250K leftover for him alone. If you look at it that way, you see that it's not expensive. In fact, for people in the tax base, what they, what they do is those 40K will give us 250K in profits. OK, In that case, if we double the spend and we make it 80 K,
does that mean we're going to get 500K in profits? And then they will try it and if it works, the people in tech will say, oh, OK, no problem. Should we make it 120 K And maybe we're now going to get, you know, is that 150K or 100M or sorry or one M in profit? So don't think in terms of expensive or expensive, sorry, expensive or inexpensive. You know, it's, it's always relative to the returns that you're receiving. But Shah, what I'm trying to say is how do you know when you can remove your leg from the throttle?
It's hard to say what should I keep measuring? But the point I'm trying to say is you won't always be the case. They won't always have to advertise at 40K monthly. I mean, look at Coca-Cola, look at Nike, look at all these others Abish brands. I mean, there was a time when in the beginning, you know, full scale on the trottle. Like the guy who did Nike, is he Phil Knight and be what's his name? Yeah. So in his book, he mentioned about how he used to put shoes in the car, driving around trying to sell the shoes.
So in the beginning, plenty of leg graft. You walk up and down, you're talking to people one-on-one, plenty of graft. Then after that, advertising, advertising, you know, and the business is now, you know, things don't settle, things are mature, things are calm. So every year you run the same playbook. How much do we spend in advertising? Last year, you know, just maintain, you know, was not as if like in the early days when it's do or die running up and down doing this, doing this, you know, also hard.
So don't worry when you start no break when it comes to sales and marketing, no break, no rest for the wicked. But don't worry, time will come. You will remove legs from throttle and things will still be moving because you have critical mass. Now, why is this the case that in the early days you can't rest when it comes to sales and marketing? It's very simple. If you just be calm and follow me, you see the reason is very,
very simple. People can only do business with you if they know that you exist. If you have the best shawarma in the world but nobody knows you exist, how they come and do business with you. If you have the best deal on Samsung Fold, everybody's selling Samsung Fold at 2.5 M, but you're selling authentic Samsung Fold at maybe 1.8. It is only if people know that you exist that they can do business with you. So it doesn't matter your product or your service, people can only deal with you, they can only flow with you if they know that you exist.
And unfortunately, in the early days, nobody knows you. That's just how it is. So if I create the perfect kind of bathroom sleepers right now, which is better than other bathroom sleeper that is out there, maybe the bathroom sleepers I have created, maybe they never chop at all so they last forever or I don't know. OK, maybe that was the wrong example, but sure, you understand what I'm trying to say. If I sit in my room and I create the best, the perfect XYZ, the perfect product, the perfect service, if nobody knows me,
they cannot do business with me. So in the early days, nobody knows you. So you have to hustle hard. Let people know you, let them know your name, let them know your logo, let them know your address, let them know your, you know, whatever it is. Only after you achieve some level of notoriety, people know you. Your reputation is out there, people know what you do, people know how you can help them. It is then that you can relax.
So in the beginning, cool FM, the, I think they are business, they're part owners in this business where they make cakes. I can't remember in Lagos. So if you remember in the beginning, they used to advertise that cake thing all the time. So I can't remember the name because it's been a while since I lived in Lagos last, but these two advertise that cake as they advertise, advertise, advertise, especially when they invented.
OK, well they didn't invented but they brought that technology where you could make a birthday cake, but you could take a picture of your cake of your face or the face of the celebrant and then put it on the cake and the picture was edible. And they used to advertise the hell out of those things. So in the beginning, the reason why they were doing plenty advertisement and don't let anybody rest us because they were brand new in the market.
Nobody knows that they exist. They have this technology where you can take the picture of your wife, of your daughter, of your son, of your mom, of your pastor and put it on the cake and people will slice that cake and they will eat it. The picture is edible. So that's why they were advertising like crazy. Now, if you listen to Cool FM, do you hear the advertisement of the cake shop? Again, you don't hear it because they've achieved a certain level of critical mass.
People know who they are, people know they exist. People go there, they now get organic business so they can now release their leg from the trottle. No need to be advertising too much. So that is just the dynamic. So the sales bro who spoke at the event is absolutely correct. He's absolutely correct. You will always be doing sales. You will always be doing marketing. There will be no rest for you, no rest for the wicked.
You will not rest. But like I said, it is not forever because there's a question of critical mass. At a certain level, we achieve critical mass. Then you release your leg from the Trotter or eventually you will hire a team so that sell, sales and marketing is no longer your personal responsibility. However, the selling function will always continue. So these are the two reasons why I say yes, but not forever. Yes, you will always sell, but not forever because you will achieve critical Marks and you will relax.
Or you will hire a team and it will no longer be your job to sell, it will now be their own job. But of course, you have to stay on demo. Don't just tell people go and sell. For me, you don't took idea. You need to put eye and see what's going on. So now that we know that selling is always going to be a responsibility, how do we start this journey? I always recommend that we start with friends, family members and associates.
Not because they're your ideal customer, but just to get some early reps because sales is hard. There's plenty of rejection that is involved. So if you practice on your friends and your family members first, you'd be better prepared when you're talking to total strangers. The example that I gave, I've given a couple of times on the podcast was when I was talking to my mom. We're doing role play. She said, well, more role play.
I said, who's man? I started again. And then we're talking, talking. And then they go to the pricing, whatever I was delaying to give the price. And then my mom, you know, that's in role play, shouted me, I say, young man, give me the price. I'm busy. And at that point I stopped. I said, mommy, what is this now? Like, is that necessary? And my mother said she laughed. She said, what do you mean that? Is that necessary?
I said, is that necessary to be talking to me like that? Now role play with the role play, my mother said, look, this is Niger. People talk like that. And I said, look, if anybody talks like that, I don't want to do business with that kind of customer. And that's why we ended the role play. And I said this woman said she, she, she, she did over too. And then I just like left it. But lo and behold, I have faced that situation where somebody told me, young man, I am busy,
just give me the price now because I did a role play with Mumsy and I have been thinking, OK, if somebody vets for me say just your mind, give me the price, what will I say when you think now actually happened, I was better prepared for it. So in trying to sell to your friends and family members, or role play with your friends and family members, or sell to people in church or things like that, you will discover some things that work.
And you will keep doing it. When you're talking to people, you'll discover some things that don't work and you will never try that again because it did not work. Even when you are trying to sell to people in the choir who are your friends. Therefore, when you're now selling to people who are total strangers, you should not everyone try it. So that is why I recommend that we start with friends, family members and associates.
You know, they like you. You'll get one or two easy wins. You gain some confidence boost. You know, one or two things that work and then honestly speaking, by the time you try and sell to like 20 or 30 people, there's a way that you just feel more confident when you're going live to go and talk to total strangers. Because I've spoken to 150 people, I've sold successfully to 40 people and what's the big deal? No betrayed, fair.
I can make it work. You'll be able to go with confidence. So I recommend starting with friends, family members and associates. Then if you listen to the previous podcast episode, you remember when I spoke about being multi model. So you know, we do everything in the beginning. So it's not just a matter of going to talk to people, not just physical one-on-one or phone calls. You should also be doing some stuff online. Content marketing I think should be part of your strategy because you need to remain visible on social media because that's the way that you stay top of mind with potential customers.
For instance, later, take me, there's some people who reach out and we'll say how far let's talk and I say cool, but then maybe the meeting doesn't hold or something like that. Now me, quite frankly, the reason why I'm not bothered is because as part of my process, I'll probably reach out to them again later on, you know, Hey, what's up? Sorry, it's been a while. Forgive me. We lost track of the conversation. So what say you, are you cool?
Should we pick it up? I'll be, are you sorted? That kind of thing. But also because of the broadcast and because of the radio show. I know that I'm still top of mind because if somebody reaches out to me last week because they heard me on the radio show, but today's thing did not click, no how, no how. Next week or upper week, he will still hear me on the radio again. I am remaining top of mind. It's the same thing. We should use social media to remain top of mind, visibility,
top of mind. That's how I worked. So that's also something we can use to be in sustained selling mode. So that's why for me, sometimes I can rest, sometimes I can disappear for two or three days because the podcast is always there selling on my behalf. I can be sleeping, somebody's listening to the podcast, but still sustained selling function is still continuing. Then of course, you can also use automations for sustained selling, like on social media,
you know, schedule stuff. I schedule a lot on LinkedIn. In fact, that's the first thing I do. I wake up in the morning and then I schedule the post that's supposed to go out at 9:00. I post it 10 o'clock 1112123. So that's how many is that 6, I'll be 7. So I wake up in the morning and I schedule 6 posts like that. Bam. So every week that is 6, I'll be 6 times seven. What is that? OK, let me stop here in case my children listen to this in the future.
Then they'll say that he doesn't know 6 times table. So I think that's like 42 now. 6 * 630 six 10 + 6. Yeah. 42. Yeah. Good. SO42 posts every single week. The selling function is still moving because I'm taking advantage of scheduling some of the activities. And then remember my my friend who's a lawyer and who runs a restaurant, you know, the advertising is standard. It is fixed every single month automatically just deduct from the account beam and we'll go to Instagram advertising.
So these are some of the ways that we can keep selling mode activated and sustained in the early days. Now for those of you in particular who are thinking about fintechs and all that startup space, who or what are the major groups of people that you're always going to be selling to? So you're always going to be selling to investors because you have to secure funding. You know, it's a never ending. Well, it's not as if it's a never ending because you know they're different funding rounds.
So eventually it stops. But in the beginning they're spending a lot of time talking to investors because it's not safe. If you talk to 10 people today, it will then give you value. Truth of matter is if you talk to 10 people today, maybe four or five will say, OK, sounds interesting, let's have another meeting. At the end of the day, maybe one person invest, maybe 0 people invest. So that's why it looks like it's never ending.
So you will always be selling to investors, always be trying to get funding to ensure that your company survives and that it grows. For those of you in the startup space, you will always be selling to potential hires, always trying to get people, come along from my startup, come along from my startup. In fact, I was thinking about this thing this morning. I was thinking, it's 2025, the year could have been better. And I started thinking, you know what, I'm a one man show.
She'd be as you have somebody to do this, do this. And then I was now thinking in my mind, OK, if I call Sophie, if I call this person, if I call this person, she can handle this. This guy can handle this. How much will I pay them? You know, blah, blah, blah. So you see, in my mind, excuse me, in my mind, I'm really thinking about getting potential hires on board and I'm already trying to figure out how am I going to sell this thing to them.
Like, you know what, this thing that I'm working on, you know, you go pay. So therefore come on board, work with me. It's the same thing. Those of you who are in the tech space are going to be doing as well sending potential hires. Then you also have to sell your core team because you have to keep morale high. Especially for those of you who are selling, let's say like tech software or something. You need people's morale to be high because engineers don't like engineering, creating apps and creating stuff just for creating sake.
They also want to see that, you know, we're making progress. It's only very lazy people that collect salary for the sake of collecting salary. At a certain point, people want to feel as if this work I'm doing has value. This thing is moving. So you always have to be selling to your core team because you have to keep moral high. You have to inspire your your team to continue to push through whatever challenges you guys are going through.
You're also going to be selling to customers, also going to be selling to future partners because you're always building relationships. You're always trying to get product feedback. You want to see if your solution works. You're always constantly talking to customers and partners. Then of course, you're always going to be selling to the media, selling to the public. That's for those of you who want to build the next Unicorn.
You want to build that, you want to build the next pay stack, you want to build the next, you know, call your African Abbey, Nigerian Unicorn that is out there. You're going to be selling a lot to the public. So these are the reasons why you will always be selling and these are the people that you'll be selling to. In fact, if you stop selling the vision, if people stop buying in, if investors stop dropping money, if talent starts leaving your your team, if the team loses focus on motivation, you can see that's much more things will begin to die.
So these are the reasons why you will always be selling. Selling is not just an activity at this stage, it's also a mindset. So if you're a salesperson now, of course, obviously you should always be selling to prospects. A prospect is a person who might be interested in your product or your service. You should always be looking for prospect, you should always be looking for market. As we like to see in this part of the world in Niger with a fine market, you should always be finding market, selling to prospects.
Of course, you also sell to your internal teams because you know other people. There's a limit to how much one person can sell. Eventually you need to get somebody else, which is the reason why I'm thinking, I think it's time for me to call Sophie, say, Sophie, what's up? I know you've been doing this. You've been doing this, Bob, I need you on board. Let's talk. Some people will say you have to sell to yourself, you know, as in get yourself, get yourself motivated because you know how it is now.
Sometimes you wake up and like, God, do I have to stand up today. So you have to motivate yourself. So excuse me. So Shah, whether you're a founder, whether you're a salesperson, if you take a break, if you take a break, there's a risk that you fall into complacency and then things will not stop. Things will not stop moving, things will not be moving again. So that's the reason why in the beginning, you will always be selling, you will always be influencing, you will always be communicating value, you will always be building relationships.
You will always be whatever it is you want to call it, because it is necessary to take things from where you are and to move things to a higher level. So the tech bro was absolutely correct. But for those of you who don't like to sell, do not be afraid. Because like I said, yes, you will always be selling and there'll be no rest for the wicked. But it is not forever. One day, God willing, you will achieve critical mass and you'll be able to release your foot from the trot.
Or before you get to that stage, you will hire one or two people who will be selling on your behalf. And you personally, you can rest, but the selling function will always continue. And so with that, the tech bro, he got it right. And if you attend any conference and you hear any tech bro or tech sister say that kind of thing, remember this podcast episode that this is one of those cardinal kernels of truth that you need to take on board.
Just accept it. And your business journey will be, I won't say it will be easier, but you'll be. You might not feel easier, but it will be easier to accept because at least you know what you signed up for. You know, it's like people. It's like guys, young men who fall in love and you want to marry, but then you forget that with marriage comes children. And then when the first child comes, you know, you're now surprised and say, ha, ha,
that's all marriage DB. Nobody told me, you know, But at least if you know from the beginning, there's a total package that as you marry the wife became must come. At least when the children come, we'll shake you too much because like what is expected? So that's it. And that is all for today. Remember, if you'd love to get in touch, my name is Tavishima IED, those of the podcast, your favorite lawyer turned business consultant.
You can also find me on LinkedIn, but you can call send me a text message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I'll catch you at the next episode.