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Today on the podcast, we're going to be looking at more ideas about branding and then also go into reasons why I started the podcast. Now, the reason why we're looking about looking at these things today, branding, and why I started the podcast is because I had a recent collaboration with Elizabeth. She is the head honcho, the CEO, the first lady of Goshen Media, and we had a collaboration where we're going to clean up my branding and clean up my positioning.
Abhi, should I say clean up the branding and the positioning of this podcast? Now, some of you might say I'm not a fan of that thing, you know, a fan of these sorts of things. And that's the reason why I've been making this recent branding episodes to clarify what my opinions on marketing are, especially how we can consciously use marketing to drive sales. You know how both of these things go hand in hand. So anyway, we went ahead with this collaboration anyway.
That's me, the podcast Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media. I went ahead with it because quite frankly, my former designs didn't have much thought to it. I've never lied to you guys. I've told you guys that when ChatGPT was invented, I just went to ChatGPT and I just said something like design me a logo, use red, use orange, use black. And then he gave me 5 options. I just picked the number one option and that's it.
That has been the logo that I've been using for the podcast until now. Because if you're listening to today's podcast, I'm sure you've noticed that the colours have changed. You know, some of you have written to me to say good designs like the new look, you know, blah, blah, blah. And all that is because of the good work by Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media. So that's the reason why I went ahead with the collaboration.
Although, you know, to be honest, you know, even though I speak on stages, I speak in conference rooms, online rooms, office floors. You know, I'm prefer to be like a ninja. I'm prefer to operate in the shadows most of the time. So, yeah, I'll admit that how I am perceived consciously, all my branding, you know, it's not been something that I paid much deliberate attention to. So in today's podcast episode, we're going to look at some questions that Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media had for me before starting the design brief.
Now, ordinarily what I've said, Mandy's a private matter. It's not the kind of thing I should come and show on the podcast. But in the conversation that followed between me, Elizabeth and her team, you know, I had to talk about the couple of things related to not just branding, but other things that are related to business as well. And I'm hoping that some of you listening to the podcast right now are going to get some good stuff out of the conversation that we had.
So I'm making today's recording out and about. I'm at an undisclosed location, but of course I'm at the parking lot of this location. I said, let me just make this thing shop, shop because I should have made this podcast recording a long time ago. But you know, just been pushing out, just been pushing it because, you know, things come up. Things come up rather. So you're going to hear noise in the background, you know,
security guards, construction people moving around. I can assure you that we will not hear any cows or chickens today because before I whipped out my phone, I looked around, I didn't see cow, I didn't see chicken. So yeah, we shouldn't have animal noises in the background. Now, if you're looking for a podcast that talks about how to move your Nigerian business forward, then you are in the right place. Welcome to the podcast.
I'm your host. My name is Tabishma Ayede. I've been doing this for a while. For years I've been talking about only practical, realistic, relevant stuff that will help to drive Nigerian businesses forward and help us find market. So if you're ready to stop wasting your time on generic advice, you know from all those bland, you know anyhow anyhow podcast talking about all sorts of things, then stay here, stay locked in.
Subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or any player of your choice and get that goodness. And if you want to connect, then call, send me a text message or WhatsApp message on 08064662140, which is precisely how Elizabeth got in touch with me. And that's the reason why we have the collaboration today. So let me see, let me get my notes because it was a long conversation. I think we spoke for maybe about an hour.
So let me just go over some of the questions that we looked at. OK? Oh, before I get into that, also one moment. OK, sorry, something flashed across my phone. Yeah, I make the podcast recording on my phone, by the way. So, you know, once in a while something flashes across. I just have to check to be sure it's not an emergency. Let's see. So let's talk a little bit about Goshen Media because some of you have been hearing since I
started talking about this brand new thing. Some of you have been here, Elizabeth Goshen. Elizabeth Goshen. Who is Elizabeth? So who is Goshen Media now? Russian media is a creative agency. So there are an organization that want to help other businesses look good to stand out so that they can grow. And I'm sure for those of you who've seen the new look, you know the new logo, I'm sure you guys have made that man. Our boys finally looking good,
no longer looking crass. So yeah, that's that's because of them. And what they do is they try to combine a brand strategy with design and it involves coming up with different kinds of materials. So, you know, logos, brand styles, communication materials, you know, like Flyers, business cards, social media posts, you know, stuff like that. That's basically what social media does. So if you've had a look at the brand new logo, you like what you see so far, you know, send me a message or just try and search for them on social media.
And I promise you, you're not going to regret doing business with them. But just to let you know, they're not as casual as I am. They're a little bit more on the formal side and just put it that way so that, you know, it's not everybody that I refer that does business the same way as as me. Then just put it that way. So I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm not saying that if you like the way that you know me, I'm casual, you know me, I'm loose,
you know, stuff like that. They are a bit more formal, you know, so with Elizabeth and with Gaussian Media, you know, we have proper meetings and at the meeting someone is taking notes and, and you know, let's see what else. After the meeting, we have a proper e-mail summary that is sent and everything is documented. Nice. Very well with emails being sent back and forth, you know, real, proper, very, very proper. So kudos to Elizabeth Ann Goshen media.
So their focus pretty much is brand consistency. You know, they want to make things clear, consistent, easy for people to recognize and easy for people to trust. And I'm hoping that with the work that we've done with the new logo that, you know, we're going to achieve all of that. So basically social media, what do they do? They just help a business or help a company tell it's story and attract the right audience. So one of the questions that they asked me, they asked me why did you decide to start a sales podcast?
Yeah, that was the first question. Why did you decide to start a sales podcast? This is the reason why, for those of you who've been listening for a while, you know, that I started off in the creative space. I used to be a wedding photographer. I used to hang out with lots of creatives, you know, photographers, video people, people that paint, people that sculpt, people that do fashion, people that bake cake, people that make food.
Is food creative? Yeah. Well, and let's see. OK. And I don't know if food is creative, but yeah, hanging out with caterers, different kinds of people. Then after a while, I realized that my people, photographers, videographers, cake bakers, event planners, wedding decorators, caterers, they have the wrong idea about what is required for business growth. Let me repeat my people listening to the podcast now, my primary constituency, the place where I came from, the place where I was circumcised,
photographers, videographers, event planners, cake makers, MC, what again, balloon artist, you understand my people, all of you, you have the wrong idea about what is required for business growth. Wrong. Now let me stick to my primary constituency. So I want to annoy too many people, photographers, photographers, for instance, back in the day. I don't know about now, but back in the day they were just preoccupied. Megapixels.
What was your camera? How many megapixel are you? Own is 20. My own is 30 my own is 120. My own is this. You know who's own is bigger? All this kind of stupid games editing software. What are you using? Well, I'm on Adobe suite, I'm on this, I'm on that, I'm on this and that. I know this one is last year. This is the recent camera sensor. Which kind of camera sensor are using? Is it full frame? Is it mid frame? Is it crop sensor?
You know, those sorts of things then. No, I was worried about the laces advances, you know, in in tech are using. What's it called? SLR. That's a single lens reflex. Yeah. Single lens reflex is the SLR that you're using that being an analogue. OK, it's digital. OK. Is it mirrorless? Is it, you know, like all those all these kinds of things, then lighting technique are using one point lighting technique, or two point lighting technique or three-point lighting technique?
Are you lighting foreground, highlighting background, then compositional techniques how you compose the picture, you know, and then look, see if you were hanging out in photography forums back in those days, you'd have believed that this is all you need to be successful megapixel editing software lighting. These are that's all that my boys, my brothers and sisters used to obsess about in those days, but didn't realize that that is not what leads to business growth.
It is not. It is not. And it's one of the things I used to cause quarrel in the photographer community because some people will say, I see this guy, the guy is making money. And you know, the guy itself, you know, he doesn't even know how to take picture. You know, his picture is this a picture is that. And photographers beefing themselves up and down, like, why are you beefing? Why? The reason why businesses grow is because somebody knows how to market and somebody knows how to sell.
Full stop. People need to know who you are, they need to know what you do. They need to know how much you cost, what are the benefits of doing business with you. If you can't do all those sorts of things, you will succeed. So this rubbish of photographers beefing themselves, you look at yourself, you see me, I'm a better photographer. See my picture, my picture is on point. That guy's picture, his pictures are useless.
But the guy is a millionaire. The reason why he's a millionaire is because he can sell a market. So please, photographers who are still playing all these useless games, get your head out of your, you know, learn how to sell, learn how to market and stop this needless beef is needless. And I've been sitting in some other industries too, somebody who say I graduated accounting first class. This guy graduated the third class, but he's the one that everybody is talking about in the accounting space.
And so so he can sell better than you. Is it his fault you didn't learn how to sell? That's the problem. Yes, you graduated first class is good, but he never took the time out to learn how to sell and to market yourself. So the fact that now a third class person is one that all Nigerians are celebrating as somebody that is good in accounting, like you know, how is that his fault? It's your fault that you don't know how to sell.
They didn't learn how to market yourself. They didn't learn how to take this, your first class brain and market it to the Nigerian public. It's your fault. It's not the other person's fault. So stop this beef. I beg stop the beef. Anyway, that's why I started the podcast, because my people, my very people, my brothers and sisters, they didn't realize that they were suffering because of lack of knowledge. They're always focusing on the technical stuff, technical knowledge, technical knowledge,
technical knowledge. Every single time photographers will gather together, whether in Abuja or whether in Lagos or whether in the East, we'll get together and then we'll be teaching ourselves lighting technique. Really lighting technique. You think that your business is not moving because of lightning technique? Especially nowadays in the day of YouTube, in the day of YouTube, when everybody has access to information.
See, I'm not saying all these things are not important. It's just that nowadays these things are prerequisite. Anybody who is on the scene now knows how to handle a camera, knows how to light, knows how to compose, knows how to edit, is basic. That's like, you know, it's like writing jam. So everybody has passed that level. So now that all of us are here, all of us are standing, all of us know how to use camera. We all know how to use computer.
The thing that will now separate the wheat from the chaff is the person who knows how to market and the person who knows how to sell. That's why I started this podcast. My creative people, I'm talking to you especially. Stop focusing on all these things. Not about the camera. It's not about the editing software. You need business knowledge. You need business acumen. That's the reason why I started the podcast. So initially, yeah, the podcast,
I can't remember the title back then, you know, was maybe sales for the Nigerian wedding industry or something like that. But then as I did podcast now, I now realize one thing. I woke up one day and I realized that the people that I'm trying to talk to, my brothers and sisters, they're not everyone listening to this podcast because I was getting feedback and I was hearing from other people. Somebody's an accountant, somebody said this.
One day we'll hear from somebody who is in masseuse. Masseuse as in, you know, person where they do massage. At that point I say, why am I pretending? Why am I pretending? Because believe me, I tried. The first set of lectures that I used to give. I used to give to wedding planners. I used to try and you know, talk to photographers. You know, I tried, I tried, but my people were not listening to me. It was other Nigerians in other industries that were listening to me.
So after I say let me stop deceiving myself, how can I be calling something sales for the Nigerian wedding industry? The majority of the people where they listen are not in the Nigerian wedding industry. That's how I change the name of the podcast to Sales for the Nigerian Business Person. And that's how I've been moving since. That's why I started the podcast. I was trying to talk to my brothers and sisters, but my brothers and sisters, they know and listen.
And like Jesus Christ said, now you go into the towns, you know, the hillways and the valleys, you know, you go and talk. You people listen, no problem. If they don't listen, dust off your feet and then move. And they continue to preach until the ends of the earth. So that's why I have this podcast. I'm preaching to the ends of the earth. I started off talking to my brothers and sisters, photography people, video people, cake people, wedding planner, caterer, MC, comedian,
you know, I was talking to my people. My people know I listen. So that's the reason why today I'm talking to you. That's why I started this podcast. So another question that Elizabeth and her team asked, Let's see. Did you end your journey as a wedding photographer completely? Did you end your journey as a wedding photographer completely? The answer is YES. Yes, I no longer chase commissions for wedding photography. I don't.
But some people still hit me up from time to time even though I have deleted all my social media. So when that happens, I outsource what comes in and I tell people that I have a team who is going to take care of you. So I outsource it. So you will no longer find me holding a camera at the wedding. Well, however, if somebody calls for instance, and they they call good money, you say you want me to photograph your wedding and I
say no, I have a team but they say no, it has to be you. And the best wants to drop good bar, like for instance if they say to be on the floor myself that day, we're talking numbers and the numbers are looking like 800 to one M. Oh, I'll carry the camera, most definitely I will. But until then, I no longer handle the camera again. For weddings, I outsource whatever comes because some people still reach out to me. However, I still enjoy telling stories.
So when corporate clients come and NGOs come, parasitos. Oh yeah, I do work for people like that. So last year I did a series of documentaries for the British Council. Those of you who listened for a while, I was just in you guys, as everything was coming in and as I was wrapping things up. So I did the documentary on cerebral palsy. That was in 2020. Today, OK, well in 2025, that was in 2024. Then we also did the documentary on digital inclusion in Nigeria.
And that's because the British Council had a project to the SIDP that is the was a good skills and inclusive digital participation program, something like that. And the idea behind the program basically is this, that there are certain classes of people in Nigeria, women, people who are living with disabilities. Yeah, you know, those people, they don't have access to community, to the Internet in certain kinds of communities.
So that's why they started off in Lagos. And by the way, I served in Lagos, so I know that for a fact, you know, there's poverty in everywhere. There's poverty everywhere. But I would like when I moved to Kanoa, in those villages, the things that I saw, because I'm from Benoit State and I know that Benoit State people, we have it rough, but the things that I saw in Kano, I say people are living like this anyway is Nigeria.
There's poverty in in the land everywhere. So there was that documentary on digital inclusion. Then some other documentaries on youth empowerment because the the British Council has programs for, you know, youth empowerment. You know, the organized stuff. They train people here, they fly you abroad, you get taught a bunch of things, then they bring you back the whole idea. Basically it looks like the British Council and all these sorts of organizations.
What they're trying to do is they're trying to do knowledge transfer and best practices and then they send you back to your country and hopefully you know through that, that is how countries, you know, Niger, India, you know, wherever will begin to improve, you know, small by small by small. So those also documentaries, those are the kinds of things that I did in 2024. Then of course, since you know, corporations, the end of year parties activation programs, OK,
like for Sigma Pensions. Sigma Pensions is now defunct. It only exists 'cause I think was bought over by Access, I think was bought over by Access Bank. I'll be Access Group or whatever 3 or 4 years ago, you know, I bet. Well, I can't remember when sure, but you know, if you go and check on Google, I'm sure you'll be able to find it. Then. Then also did some programs on gender based violence. OK, that was during COVID.
Actually the programs on gender based violence, that was during COVID and those ones are financed by the British High Commission. Then also provide live streaming services for conferences. You know, we do light and sound, you know, things like that. So it is possible for those of you who do know my face, because lots of you don't, it is possible that you might go to some event and you say don't be tablishing my be this, you know,
yeah, if you think isn't that tablishing my, you know, it's most likely me. So just walk up and say hello. You know, let's let's catch up. You know, I don't mind talking to people when I'm out and in the field. But if you see me holding a camera, it's for corporate clients only. And I no longer market these services. So go and check the Internet. You won't find me promoting myself in events or in weddings or in nothing.
I don't promote those things at all. So I'm relying only on relationships that I've built over, built up over the years. By the way, it is possible to build a business without social media and a website. And these are some of the experiments that I'm running with how I am still doing corporate stuff and NGO stuff. And also the podcast. If you notice this podcast, you know my social media presence is 0. Some of you have been complaining and I'm really,
really sorry, but to be honest, social media is work. I can't go and open Tiktok and open Instagram and face like I tried. But man, it's, it's work. So I just have to shut everything down, especially after my Facebook was hacked. I said, look, man, I'm this, this issue is just too much for me. So I just, I shut everything down. So yeah, I have ended my journey as a wedding photographer completely. I'm now in consulting full time,
but the only reason why I still handle these things is because I have to be a practitioner. I don't want to be like all those other people who are sales trainers training other people on how to become sales trainers. You know, it's, it's just somehow. So I'm still a practitioner. I'm still in the field, I'm still selling myself. And in fact, that's one of the reasons why some of the things that I talk about you relate to because these are challenges that I have had myself.
You call somebody up and it is clear that the person has collected 3 or 4 proposals and in fact, you, you're #5 he has already looked at four people ahead of you. The reason why I can talk to you sorts of things is because it is stuff that I have lived. I'm not telling you, Fury. I'm telling you practice. Or you drop your invoice. There are three of you. You now happen to find out that one of the guys who dropped Invoice is the nephew of the best friend of somebody,
somebody, somebody, something. But yet I still have to try on halls with this market. I'm not telling you a theory. I'm telling you stuff that has happened to me. So that's the reason why the things you talk about here is not academic. Usually experience first, my own experience, all the things that people have been telling me in the field. Other photographers have issues. You know, we discuss, well, I'm consulting with my clients, you know, we discuss.
So practical, practical, practical, very, very practical. So that's the focus. Then she also asked, how did you get into sales? OK, when it comes to sales knowledge or sales theory? For that I would have to credit my younger brother because we did some businesses together. And then after a while, he gave me Brian Tracy, the psychology of sales. He gave me the audio files. And as soon as he gave it to me, I promptly ignored him.
I ignored him. My brother was like, look, you seem to be good at this stuff and it sounds like stuff that you seem to be doing anyway. But then I told my brother something that some people still say. I said Brian Tracy, white guy, American guy, the guys who sell insurance, savvy. What does insurance have to do with exports? What does white oyibo corporate practice have to do with Nigerian wedding photography? This guy is telling us rubbish or he's telling us stuff that does not apply in Niger.
So I ignored and I did not listen to Brian Tracy, Psychology of Sales. I did not. I was wrong. So those of you who still say that you are wrong. But I didn't listen for at least three years. One day I said may I play this thing small? And I started playing and oh boy, the things started to make sense. And I realized that whenever you're listening to Brian Tracy or some other person, all you have to do is forget the fact that this person is American or UK or Australia.
Just listen whenever the person says this is how you sell insurance. Pretend you didn't hear insurance. Let's say you sell Ugly and Uber. Remove insurance and put Ugly and Uber. The practice or the principle that the person says. See if it applies to Ugly and Uber. If it applies to Ugly and Uber, there you have it. You can listen to this person who is talking about insurance, even though what you sell is ugly and Uber and the thing will work.
And that is how I started listening and listening and reading and reading because I realized that, look, even though these people are Americans and they're old, they're old because Brian Tracy, you know, made law continue to preserve him. But the guy is looking like he's, you know, some people don't age well. You know, my guy is looking like he's. Anyway, let me not talk because when it's my turn, I don't know what I would look like when the time comes.
So they look old. Yeah. And they look white. Yeah. And they're talking about industries that have nothing to do with your own industry. Somebody will be talking about real estate sales or car sales, and you think to yourself, me, I'm a cake Baker. What does real estate have to do with cake baking? Just listen and do the substitution that I said. Pretend that this person is not white. Then every single time the person says, when you're selling insurance, remove insurance and then put wedding cake.
See if the thing makes sense, everything makes sense. Go and apply. You'll be surprised that sales tactics, sales principles that have been used in selling insurance and in selling car can help you to sell your wedding cake, your birthday cake. That's how I started listening and that is what I do over here on the podcast cause for some of you is too much work. So I do the work for you. I take this knowledge, I strip out the white person, I put it in the Nigerian context, make it easier for you to digest.
Then when you reach out to me and we're trying to solve one or two problems in your business, I'm doing that precisely. I'm doing that. I'm synthesizing ideas and I'm stripping out stuff, making it fit to the Nigerian experience. That's all. In fact, if you say you will never listen to this podcast again and you only go and listen to durable people, quite frankly, you'll be fine. You'll be all right so long as you do what I said.
Pretend that this person is not white. Pretend this person is talking about your industry, The one that makes sense, apply. The one that doesn't make sense, ignore. After a while, you'll see that you're doing OK. So as I started off, Brian Tracy, the psychology of sales or something like that, Then later on I'll be exposed to the ideas of Tom Hopkins. He's in a real estate space. Grant Cardone used to be in the car space, currently in real estate.
Victor Antonio used to be in tech infrastructure Shack, you know, web-based infrastructure and things like that. Currently a sales trainer. Then Neil Rackham is a consultant, the author of Spin Selling. So that's it. So my own approach basically is this, I'm taking a common sense sense synthesis, yes, of what works. I'm trying to synthesize stuff and they apply to the Nigerian context. Now the greatest realization that I'm bringing to the Nigerian market is this.
When it comes to sales, there is a difference between simple sales and complex sales scenarios. And I think that's the benefit that is the main, the main thing that I've gotten from listening to all these people. Now, yes, there's something called sales and there's something called selling. But how you sell ugly and Uber and how you sell groundnuts and how you sell plantain and how you sell Benny seed, the principles apply.
Oh, but there's a slight difference between selling those kinds of things and selling insurance, selling construction services, selling consulting services. So once you now realize that there's a difference between simple sales scenarios and complex sales scenarios, selling becomes much more simpler and easy in your head because you'll be able to enter into a scenario, a situation and you'll be able to know that OK, simple sales, 9 day here.
OK, let me comport myself like this. Or you enter some scenarios and say, oh boy, be like it is not a complex sales zone and you will comport yourself accordingly and you'll be alright. The problem is a lot of you are trying to sell insurance the same way that when let's say you are university and you open the show on my business when you are university, you're still trying to sell, you're trying to sell insurance or consulting services the same way that you are selling your shawarma business when you are in uni.
Different context, so different rules apply, different principles apply. So that's how I got into sales. Then she also asked have you ever worked in corporate sales role before? And the answer is yes, but very briefly. So if you run into anybody who says that and what I guy now and what I guy is a useless guy, you can, yeah, you can agree with the person. Like, yes, I did work with the team and yes, I did not get results.
That's is another, that's another story in itself. I'll go into that later. But just in case you run into anybody, especially someone who works for an insurance company who says, I know that guy now seeing big head, this is the best people are listening to. Yeah, you can listen to the guy. You'll be getting some some some good stuff about you'll be getting some real stuff. Yeah, let me just put it that way. Yes. So I saw the insurance briefing then I also handled client relations as a baby lawyer because it's part of our training.
You know when you become. I graduated in law, by the way, on Buffer me at Wallowa University greatest university on the African continent. I don't know about now, but when I left were you we definitely were the greatest university on the African continent. So yeah, when you finish, it's part of your training where you, I don't, I can't remember what it's called anyway. Should I say it's like industrial attachment, but it's not called that where you're attached to a law firm and it's just stuff you do, you attend meetings, you take minutes.
You also help to set and manage client expectations. Cause it's not everything that you're the senior partners will do. Then also have some experience in the civil service role and as part of Her Majesty's Civil Service back in the UK in Scotland, where I worked with the Departments of Works and Pensions, I used to process benefits and welfare claims for Job Seekers Allowance and then other kinds of health benefits. Now that job, yeah, that job,
DWP, processing benefits. That was my baptism by fire into the world of using phones every day for work. Every day you get into the office and you start, you begin a bang. Those phones, that was my Baptist in my fire. Oh man, that was fun, calling up strangers every day. If you are shy, after one week, you have to lose your shyness because it's your job. You don't do your job, you won't get paid. Those suck you. They retrench you.
So I had to learn how to learn. You make some calls, you fumble your line manager say, oh, Tara Shima should have done it like this. You should have done it like this is oh, thank you very much, Ann. And then you try again. You try again and then you fumble. Somebody will shout at you, call you some nasty names. You drop the call. You go into the toilet after you pee, you wash your hand. You look at yourself in the mirror.
You say, hey, is he me Masters educated? I'm chopping insult from Weibo on top. What? So yeah, that was fun. That was really, really fun. Calling up strangers every day, trying to tease out information, trying to figure out who is telling the truth, who is telling lies so you can process the claim. Then of course, how to, excuse me, how to be conversational when handling the call, how to build rapport, you know, because you can't have a conversation where people are telling you about their health, telling you about their work, telling you about family issues and things like that.
You can't do without rapport. If you don't build rapport, how would somebody open up to you, especially when someone was recalling with a foreign accent, You know, for the purposes of being in Scotland, when you're Niger, you're the one that has foreign accent. So it was really, really interesting. That was fun. That was really, really fun. I was fun. I missed those days sometimes, but it is when somebody who shouted you, I remember one guy,
the guy shouted at me say I need my freaking money. So now, wow. Anyway, those are good days. Those are good days. I'll make a podcast episode later on. Just give you some, some drama, drama that happened during those days. I see. That's also the reason why I said, look, when it comes to selling by using the phone, you should stop being afraid. That's the ones that will happen. The ones that will happen is that somebody will shout at you,
you won't die. You won't die. You just stand up, drink water, just, you know, shake your leg, go to toilet, just wanna pee, wash your hands, look in the mirror. Just tell yourself you got this. And while that, you know you won't always be like this. It's temporary. I'm on the way to something. I'm going somewhere. I know where I'm going. I'm going somewhere. Then you just shake it off. You want to sit down again, pick up the phone.
Then you call. You continue. You're going somewhere. Don't worry. So yeah, feel free to use the phone to build up your business. The words that happen is no shout at you. Nobody came to the office and stabbed me. Nobody, nobody. And in Nigeria, nobody has sent police to come and arrest me. So please, please feel free. Use the phone. So let's say what else? OK then also handling sales conversations while doing export trading with my younger brother.
It was nice interacting with people in the Middle East because that's where we did most of our businesses. So the cultural issues, let me just say it's interesting, you know, Middle Eastern people don't talk the way that we Nigerians, we talk. Also another reasons why I say we should be using the phone because when you're writing some things as a Nigerian and the Middle Eastern person is writing, like the way they write is different.
Like they write some things. And I've been wondering like, why is this idiot being so rude now? But then you pick up the phone when you're talking, just realize like, OK, that's just the way they are. It's not. So the guy is being rude is just, you know, it's just their culture. That's just how they talk. You know, I have some people say Nigerians are proud or forceful, you know, so if you read the writing from Nigerian person like I was all these big, big words, this guy is full of himself.
But then when you talk to the person on the phone, you know, when the foreigners talk to us on the phone or they see us face to face, like, oh, you guys actually quite nice. So that's the reason why I said I look phone and face to face, believe me is the best. You pick up on lots of all kinds of cues then also being a wedding photographer was good experience for getting into the sales environment. So that's the answer to the question did I work in a corporate sales structure before Yes, very, very briefly.
But my skills on the phone, it started when I was in the civil service because we had to use, we had to use the phone. We had to use the phone anyway. We have things were in the UK at the time. They will send you to anybody's house anyway because and let me not talk too much about all those, all those kinds of stuff. So yeah, that's it. Then also asked me that if the podcast was a person, what would it say about itself?
And my answer was very honest. I told Elizabeth and her team in Goshen Media. I said I have no idea if the podcast was a person. I have no idea what the podcast would say. However, people tell me that the podcast is practical. People tell me that the podcast will talk about relevant stuff, no fluff releasable issues. Somebody said that I sound like a brother. Another person said that I sound like a friend. There's one lady who said that,
you know, I'm like a guy who's just giving her gist in her ear and and it's nice and that sometimes she's listening to the podcast while cooking and then she's laughing and then her sons will ask her that, you know, mom, why you laughing? So I'm listening to this business podcast and they say business podcast now they make you laugh. And she said, yeah, this guy is funny. So in fact, those are the comments I like the best because I tried to crack jokes in the house and my mother would say that look, stop, you're not funny, you're not funny, you're not funny.
So when these kind of comments coming, I like to go and I'll show mom say I say, mommy, can you see your boy is funny? And I'll tell my wife that, babe, can you see how people love your boy? I'm making people laugh here. The mouth will say God bless you. And I tell her, don't worry, one day when I'm collecting Grammy, so no Grammy Oscar because of my role in a comedy series or something, I've told my wife I will not acknowledge her.
I will stand there and I will say I want to give thanks to God. I want to thank my family, wonderful children. You know, I'll acknowledge everybody. I won't call my wife at all. And my wife said it doesn't matter as long as I bring the money to the house. And I told her, I know that if I make money from comedy, you will not spend Shishi from that money. Comedy money is going to a separate account. I also like to sing.
My family members say I should stop singing, but I like to sing. So I've told them, money from comedy, money from music, You people will not see Shishi. You will go to a separate account. Alright, so that's it. Yeah. So that's what people say about the podcast. Yeah. But please do me a favour, when you reach out, let me know why do you listen to the podcast? How did you discover the podcast? What do you like about the podcast?
What would you like to, what would you like to change about the podcast? Or what could, what could I be doing better? So let me know all these things. So it helps, please. Then they also asked me where do I see myself in the next five years? And the answer to the question is, I don't know. But my ultimate vision is I want to build a proper consulting agency, proper, proper, proper consulting agency. Because in my youth, back when I
was a small embryo, there was a Boston Consulting Group. Now it's BCG, I'm out of America. Did some real interesting work then Accent, Accenture consulting, Deloitte in all those, all those big, big companies now. So those are the kind of things that we used to see when were when were small boys. You see them are like wow, those guys are pretty smart. So those are the things you used to see. Then back in Niger, there was also the Quadrant company moms who work with the Quadrant company.
They used to be Nigeria's premier. All I see now like marketing, branding firm based in Lagos. The big firms back then when I was a small boy, I don't know about now. So 80s, nineties, the big firms were Nigerian firms, especially the Quadrant and then South African firms. But I was then. So I don't know what's up now because you know, Mumsy don't retire. So I'm no longer in that world. So I don't know. So there's the quadrant company,
there was marketing communications and advertising. Then there was also Troy Car Holdings, that was the parent company that owned TQCMCA and a couple of other organizations and mumsy worked in all of them in in different capacities. So those are the kind of things I used to see when I was a small boy. So in my mind, you know, it's like no go bad now like me. So I should be one of these agencies. And then to be honest, mum, she worked in a bunch of places and her my employers not treat her Mum, she has work for one or two Nigerian billionaires and the entry tower.
So to be honest, I have a grudge, you know, ID vex. So apart from building consultancy agency, I also want to make good money, bastard money. Like I want to over shadow, you know, some of those bastards, you know, over over there. It's just it's a petty grudge. Yeah, some of you say this boy is petty. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm, I'm petty. I'm not mature. I hate to admit it, but maturity is not my thing. So yeah, somewhat that beef,
proper consulting agency, but through using private equity, you know, investing in other businesses actually also come a big boy, proper big boy, like billionaire big boy. In fact, my goal actually was to buy out two of those billionaires in particular to buy 2 of their companies. But Mum, she said, and that's not a good idea, that if you're buying a business, you buy it for business reasons. You don't buy it for, you don't buy it for petty personal reasons.
I was like, yeah, Mom, see, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. And then I call session ended. But in one day, I woke up and I realized something. And that's why I say, parents, it's important the things you tell your children. I realized something. I told mom, see, that I was going to buy out two Nigerian billionaires, that I'll buy their company 'cause I didn't like the way they treated her. Mom was he didn't laugh.
I'll say my son who said you're going to be a billionaire. She didn't say that. What she told me was if you're going to buy these people's businesses, buy it For these reasons, not that. So parents, what you say is really important. You just record them now. Oh, these ideas that I have are not so stupid because mom, she didn't shot me down. The same thing, pops, you also didn't shot me down too because he told me that if you're doing these things is not out of revenge, do it for this reason.
Do it for that reason. So parents, be mindful what you tell your kids. So part of the reasons why I have the aspirations that I have is, you know, quite frankly, you know, I say some things, I said some things as a kid and you know, they didn't shut me down. They didn't say, Oh no, T people don't do this or why not from that kind of family or anyway, let me just move on. You know, this is not about me, but summary. Just careful what it is that you you tell your kids you're shaping your children's worldview in ways that you don't know.
So what do I see myself in five years? I have no idea. Well, that's the vision proper consulting agency known on an international on an international stage. Eventually I'm going to get involved in private equity, invest and buy up a couple of businesses. Be proper, proper, proper billionaire big boy. As in be a proper or do go, you know, so you guys will feel me. You know, when you see me, I see my skin smooth when you're touching my skin and it's cold because my AC will be Mortuary,
Mortuary, cold, Mortuary setting. Yeah. That's kind of life I'm trying to live. Then also as a young boy, Harvard Business Review once he used to buy it a lot. So I used to read stuff there from, of course, people in, you know, American academia, especially people in Harvard because, you know, it's called Harvard Business Review. Then all those old school magazines that used to be available back when I was a kid, I don't know if those things are still available now because everything has gone online.
So next five years, that's where I hope to be. Then Elizabeth them also asked me, what brands do you resonate with? And the answer is none. And the reason why I don't resonate with any brand is honestly, I don't buy stuff. I don't buy anything. I use whatever my wife buys for me. I use whatever my mother buys for me. And then my brother is my younger brother. He's a, he's a gadget hot head because like the guy has like 7
headphones and then the earphones they put in your ear, he has like 4. And I'm like only you like 15 audio device. Like, why he would say, oh, you know what, this one, the base reproduction is real good. So when I'm listening to trap, I'm listening to R&B, I'm listening to house music. I listen to this one, this one, the audio is, you know, go to I'm listening to podcast. This one. If I'm watching movie, I say, look, the problem is that guy,
you have too much money. That's a problem. You say, no, no, no, no, no, Actually it serves a purpose. I'm like, look, you have too much money, that's a problem. So yeah, when it comes to gadgets, yeah, whatever my brother buys or he recommends, you know, that's, that's good. But for me, I just look out for durable stuff because I don't like change. I don't like that I'll use something today, tomorrow the team don't pack up and I use something until it breaks down.
Really. I use something until it breaks down. The last time, mom, she was at the house, she saw one of my jeans and she's like Tavish man, you know, you've won this thing for like 2 weeks. I said, Mommy, calm down, I've only been wearing it for one week, and she said one week. And you're proud of that? I said no, I'm not proud of that now. But you know, I've been busy. As you say, you don't know that these children are watching you.
I said, Mommy, I beg, I beg, I beg. I'm late, I have to go. So I left. So yeah, that's it. On to that genius dies. There's no need for me to go and buy another pair of jeans. So yeah, that's me. I have no affinity for brands at all. So my Bluetooth keyboard that I boast about, I just needed a Bluetooth keyboard and I told my brother what I was looking for. I just needed something that my phone can dock into because nowadays all these Bluetooth keyboards, you know, there's no space for you to hang your phone or hang your iPad screen or whatever.
So, yeah, so that's why I got my Bluetooth keyboard. My phones I have inherited. I'm not even ashamed to say it. I've inherited all my phones from my mom. She uses a phone, she doesn't like it. I just take it it's that simple. Or a relative has a phone, they don't like it, I just take it. So that's how it is, all. But when my wife says, look, look, look, we've gone. We can't continue like this. It's time to go and buy brand new phones here.
Then we'll go and buy new phones, one for me, one for her. So yeah, that's it. So I have no affinity for all these things anyway. And then plus, like I said, my mother used to be a marketing exec. She studied her, she has an MBA and she area of focus was public relations. Then she did some work in branding. So because of that, I already know behind the scenes. So I don't fall in love with any of these things now. That is where I get a lot of my ideas about substantive ideas when it comes to building a brand.
I've seen how the sausage is made. So if you know, they treat me anymore, really it, it, it doesn't, it does not. Especially growing up as a child in the military era, you know, in the military era now propaganda, branding, PR, they, they just used to whitewash everything. So, you know, when Obasanjour came in, there were those early public relations and branding campaigns in the Obasanjour era. Why they are trying to sell Nigeria now?
All those campaigns, in my own opinion, all those campaigns didn't work. They didn't work at all. But what is it that worked at the end of the day? By the time O Basinger put together his economic empowerment team, you know the Amazons now, Okonji Wella, that other woman with short haircut, what's her name? Madame. Due process is Obi is a Quesi and the lady in NAV Dark in all of them now. So when those people were doing things and looked like Nigeria was not to come up, that was when Nigerians in diaspora had confidence and started coming back into Nigeria.
Then foreign direct investment started flowing into Nigeria. So summary, I don't do brands because there's too much fakery going on out there. I don't I say let's focus on this on the fundamentals. So for Nigeria, when the fundamentals were good reverse Japan was happening, some of you will be will be saying what did I hear? And I'm telling you, you heard me correctly. There was a time when Nigerians were leaving America and the UK
and coming back to Nigeria and saying that Niger, lower Niger is the place where it is. That is where the prospects are. It is because substantially it looked as if things were on the come up. So it's not about how you know, with the package, with the package, pay attention to the to the fundamentals, to the substantials doesn't make progress. However, I admitted to Elizabeth and her team that even though I don't do brands, I was very,
very, very jealous. Yes, I mean, I'm not quite sure I was very jealous that Samsung did a deal with Swiss. That is I said what I said podcast. There are part of like the O GS in the Niger podcasting space. Those two girls, they've been podcasting for a while now for long and they have a very big Nigerian podcast. So even though I don't do brands, I was jealous that Samsung called a Swiss and they gave them brand new phones.
I was jealous. I was beefing also up. Now why is only them? Is it because they're babes? Is it because they're fine and they're sexy and I'm a guy? Oh, because their podcast is beginning my own Abby. So Samsung, that's why they holler me. Yeah, I was I was jealous. So yeah. So I like nice stuff too. So if you know anybody has Samsung, tell them that they that they pass me over. Samsung should call me too. They should give me free stuff.
Yeah, me to how to use Samsung Fold, right. Then they also asked me what color guidelines exist for my brand and the answer is none. I've not been paying attention to that for the old podcast, at the old podcast logo that red and brown and orange, quite frankly, it's just because I took a picture and the shirt I was wearing was red, brown and orange and I said I'm going to design any logo, you know, you suppose match those colors.
That was just it. So I took charge EPT that had been newly invented at the time, and I told it, give me a logo, right? Sales and marketing use the colors red, orange, black. It gave me something, I took it and then that was it. Currently, you notice that the podcast colors seem to be red, white and black. And that is just because I'm trusting the recommendations of Elizabeth and her team. Then I'm also relying on feedback from my wife and my younger brother because they have a greater sense of style than I do.
So I rely on them for most of these things. In fact, my style is so nondescript that to be honest, most of you would not notice me in real life. As you walk past me, you will notice me. The only thing you notice is my size and then the fact that I don't flinch. So some people say, you know, I'm like a rock or I'm like a stone. So that's it. That's the only thing you notice. Like, you know, this guy seems pretty stoic, but apart from that, you won't notice anything about me.
So what was I? Color guidelines non 0. If you like what you see so far, it is because Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media have done a good job and it has been checked off and verified by my wife and my brother who I trust when it comes to styling issues. Then she also asked me if I think the name of the podcast is too long and if I'd be open to suggestions and the answer is yes to both. Yes, the name of the podcast is too long.
There are lots of people who listen to the podcast who love the podcast, but then when it comes time to recommend the podcast, they have no idea what the podcast name is. And even when they know what the name is, you know, we don't quite, you know, remember, yeah, it's too long. It's too long sales for the Nigerian Business Person podcast. When it comes to podcasting, yes, that name is too long. However, when I was starting the podcast, I wondered when it comes to podcaster, there's no other thing as SEOSEO search engine optimization, it doesn't exist in podcasting.
So when you are an unknown entity and believe me, in Nigeria, I am not a known entity, you have to make it easy for people to find your podcast. So what I just did was I made sure that all the key terms that people will be looking for should be in the name of the podcast. So that's why sales is in the podcast name, business is in the podcast name, Nigeria is in the podcast name. And for those of you who have reached out to me, I asked some of you and it never fails.
So I was looking for a podcast and I typed in Nigerian business and then your podcast came up or I typed in sales Nigeria and your business came up or I typed in Nigeria business marketing and your podcast came up. So that's the reason why my podcast has that very long ass name. So sales for the Nigerian business person, that is the pod podcast name. I'm just doing it for just for search purposes so that people will find me.
So Elizabeth has recommended sales and marketing talk with Tavia. That's what she has recommended. Maybe someday I'll change the name, but for now, I've put that name, sales and marketing talk with Tabby. I'll put it in the podcast description so that either way, whatever people are searching for, they should be able to find the podcast. Because right now my priority is I want people to find the podcast. Whether they remember the name or not is another matter entirely, but I want them to find the podcast for now.
And I'm still going to keep it that way because my podcast is a baby podcast is a very, very young podcast. So, you know, that's why, you know, Samsung passed me up. I don't blame themselves because I only have 50,000 downloads now. Podcast, like I said what I said and the honest bunch, they probably get 50,000 downloads per one episode that they drop. But me, in the entire five year history of the podcast, I've only got 50,000 downloads and I
only have 3.3000 subscribers on Spotify. You know, those are the podcasts are much, much, much, much, much larger, you know, millions and millions of subscribers. So mine is a baby podcast. So my focus for now is that people should find me. And until then, the name of my podcast is going to be longer disjointed because any keyword that they put, they put sales, let them see me, they put Nigeria, let them see me, they put marketing, let them see me.
So that's it for now. Then she also asked what kind of assets currently exist for my brand and the answer is none. I have no assets because I don't pay attention to those sorts of things. I have my private LinkedIn account. But I just did. I hate social media. Yep, you've heard that from me. I hate social media. Then I'm also trying to show you that you can build a business without being everywhere on social media. But however, in the future, I
plan to use influencers extensively in the future and guest on other people's handles and shows because there are lots of people now that want to come up. You know, they're entering the podcasting game, they want to come up, they're on Instagram, they're on Tiktok now places and people are on the come up. So in the future, you know, when I don't, when I don't make up, I will be showing up on other people's shows, to be interviewed on other people's shows, make appearances on other people's Instagram handles, you know, things like that.
But I won't have any of my own. So that's my, that's my strategy for social media for the future. Not for now. Then let's see what else. There are lots of other things. Plenty, plenty, plenty, plenty, plenty things. So I don't want to bore you guys because already been one hour, but let me just round up. Let me just round up something real quick. Let me summarize something. Now for those of you who've been listening to what I say about Brandon, Have you guys noticed something?
Have you guys noticed something #1 Elizabeth and her team when we sat down and we say Mister Man, Mr. Tavishima, it is time to give this thing a refresh, Give this thing a rebrand, make this thing look polished, make this thing look sweet. If you notice, they didn't just go and start designing thing like that. They say no, they say more. Sit down. First, let me ask you a few questions. They asked me questions before they started to do what?
Before they started to design. And that is what I have been saying over here on the podcast called Qualification and Discovery. For those of us who are service professionals, Before you start doing work for your clients, sit them down 1st and ask them some questions. Learn something about them. Learn something about where they're coming from. Learn something about where they're going to what they're trying to achieve.
It is then that you design something that is sweet. Recently my wife had some stuff made. When we went there the designer just went and measured hammer. I said what are you designed? He said don't worry you like it. So Are you sure? She said don't worry you like it. In my mind I could tell that man this would be a disaster and the person made the thing and wife looked at him off was like I don't like the shoulders, the bust fits.
Yes, the peppermint, the back is OK, but the front row, I knew it was going to be a disaster. And the reason why I knew it was going to be a disaster is because this girl didn't ask any questions. If you're a designer, please don't just go and design something for somebody. Ask the personal question. Oh Madam, OK, listen that you want made. What is it for? Is it for outing? Is it for everyday office? Is it for birthday party?
Was it for vow renewal? Was it for baby dedication? Ask. OK, Madam, what are the kind of things do you like? Do you like mermaid silhouette? Do you like this silhouette? Do you like that Sue? Is this Sue or silhouette or whatever? Ask what kind of colors do you like? What do you want us to accentuate? Should we accentuate heaps? Should we accentuate stomach? Should we accentuate boss? Ask. Don't just go and be designing something for, for, for for somebody without asking questions.
I did not coach Elizabeth and her team to do this. It's just basic common sense, simple practice. Now before you do work for anybody, ask, ask them some questions. You have had the kind of questions that they were asking me. Ask When you ask, you now have all the information that you need to go and design. Good work. Go and design, good job for them. Then when you ask, you also now know that you can charge accordingly because based on the grammar that the person is saying, you now know that OK,
this will require plenty of work or this will require too much work. You now know how to charge accordingly. So if you have listened to this episode so far up on to this point and you haven't learned anything today, I hope you have learned this. Every single Nigerian business should be doing qualification and discovery. You should be asking questions about the person. You should be asking questions about the project. You should be asking questions about their motivations, about what they're trying to achieve before you start designing or doing anything.
If you're an architect, qualification and discovery, ask people questions. Oh Madam, thank you for taking the meeting. Yes, I would love to design A house for you and your husband, but I have to ask you a couple of questions first. Where are you building this house? What is the plan? Is it supposed to be a retirement house or is it the house you want to build and give to your grandchildren? Or is this house going to be an office?
You ask where's this house going to be situated is in Abuja, is in Nassau, is it? Is it in logo? Is it in Lagos? Ask those of you who are architects, you know the questions that should be important ask. Ask all these questions before you design A house. Qualification and discovery. Every single Nigerian business should be doing it. Then #2 All the questions that Elizabeth was answering me, you can see that I had answers to give and I had information to give.
The reason why is because I have a substantial, I have some substantial business experience 1st and I already built the podcast first. So because of that, I was able to give her helpful information that she was that she was able to use in this rebrand. Those of you who are trying to start a business and you're trying to design a brand first, you are thinking backwards. You're designing a brand based on what? You have no experience, you have no customers, you have built something, you sorry, you have built nothing.
So the brand you're trying to build, you're trying to build it on what? So relax first, go out and start whatever it is that you want to start. Worry about the brand later. The brand will take care of itself. Just go and start your brand voice. Should it be friendly or should it be authoritative or should it be aggressive? You don't know. Go and start first. You might be thinking that your brand voice is supposed to be friendly.
I'm surprised that now that I've started this journey, I've seen that sometimes I can be quite combative. So in the beginning, if I try to design the brand first, I will use lots of nice soft lines and, you know, everything to make me seem nice and friendly and everything. And then people come and hear the podcast and then I sound like a tout. Can you see how I'll be turning lots of people off please? Those of you trying to design a brand first before you start the business, you are thinking backwards.
Go and start the business first, worry about the brand later. The brand to take care of itself. So thanks to Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media for the new logo. I like it, I really do. And if you want her to do some work for you, just ask me for her contact details or try and search them online. And when you get in touch with her, just let her know that Tavi Sharma sent you so that you know that. Yeah, I have been talking about her and I'm proud of the work that she has done.
So for those of you who've been wondering that this new design bow from how? From where? From when this is the how and the when and the when. And that is where it came from because of the good work of Elizabeth and her team at Goshen Media. I guess Goshen, like for those of you who go to Redeem Church, who go to Redeem Camp, the same kind of Goshen, Goshen again, Goshen or Goshen, you know, however, GOSH EN. So that's it.
And that's all. Remember, if you'd love to connect, you can call, send me a text message or WhatsApp message on 08064662140. And if you love all the realistic and relevant stuff we've been talking about over here as it applies to Nigerian market, then you're in luck. We have over 1000 episodes of Practical Insights over here. Wherever it is you're listening to this podcast. So Scroll down, keep on listening, take note, and then apply.
Let me know how things have gone since you started applying, what you've been listening to. I'll catch you guys soon. Oh, I'm sorry for the one hour episode. This is the last one hour episode I'm going to make for 2025 later.